Curse

Riotgear · May 28, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

Lamentation
Shadow of Haste
Glyph of Lesser Energy
A lot of Paragon spear attacks (that were buffed and nerfed one month later when Paraway dominated everything)
Spoil Victor

Discord. Which is a fun one, because it went from one of the worst skills in the game to one of the cheesiest to one of the worst again.

GreatLich · May 30, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tan Blademaster

Although GW had probably one of the best form of PvP in an MMO.

It has become way too Build Wars now. It aint about skill - it's the build and situation you play. Gimmicks and retarded balancing...I have lost interterest in Guild Wars now.

Meh - back to Battlefield 2142 for my PvP action. And waiting 'til Hellgate: London comes out.

There's no pvp in Hellgate: London?

Swift Thief · May 30, 2007, 12:21 PM // 12:21

PvP is now better than ever with ATS.

Servant of Kali · May 31, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift Thief

PvP is now better than ever with ATS.

Yeah, maybe for 0,000000001% of GW population and 0,001% of PvP population.
Most guilds just want to GvG when they find time, they dont have time for AT. Nothing wrong with AT of course, just saying.

As for the rest of PvP:
HA - crap from the beginning, crap still... but there were always people who liked it, so it deserves to live i guess for people who like farming.
TA - the best PvP, after GvG
RA - frustrating at times but quite honestly holds a high place atm
AB - some people enjoy it, so it's ok
HvH - this mode does not deserve any ladder or rewards. Nerf please.
AB - fun for some.. gets boring fast but oh well
FA - would have been great fun if ANet took care of leechers
JQ - dead (imbalanced and boring map, with many obstacles which cripple too many builds, and in every way inferior to FA; not to mention a critical bug it had, i dunno if it has been fixed)

Skill balances - once upon a blue moon, and they overpower some skills on purpose trying to force a metagame = bad, and kills the game.

Conclusion: it's not that PvP in this game is bad, it's just that ANet managed to sabotage it as much as possible, from the beginning. Gaile comments on PvP issues are a big "lol" and show how hopeless the whole situation is.
Programmers did a great job regarding GW PvP; skills and skill icons are nice, modes are ok, maps are ok, professions are nice (with the exception of Paragon who has a flawed design).. but managing PvP has been horrible.

Soulsmasher · May 31, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Mesmers dont need to do damage, people just dont appreciate what a good mesmer can do, because you normally don't see the output of what they do like a monk. But the number of good mesmers is....heh....lacking......

Sophitia Leafblade · May 31, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

I think the decline of Pvp comes down to a few reasons -

Lack of Expansion - Anet has done some great Additions to Gw and they have done a good number of improvements of various sorts and another. Unfortually for one reason or another They havnt expanded the older PvP types. Rather than adding in new types what Anet really needs to do it upgrade the Current ones.

For example a good idea would be to add in more Alliance Battle maps. Instead of just having the 1 area to battle at each of the 5 points of the never ending war, why doesnt Anet add in 2 extra maps for each sector. Ok so you have pushed the Luxons back to there strong hold by beating numerious Alliance battles against them. Surely there would be more than 1 Luxon Stronghold to fight over, there coudl be 3 different ones each with slightly different mechanics. Adding some much needed Variety into the battles. Likewise when the border is central surely the two sides would be engaged in battle at several points along the border not just the 1 point at the Saltspray Beach.

Theres nothing wrong with the classes in PvP and PvE the problem is with the party forming. There nothign to stop cookie cutter teams when Anet could easily solve it by adding restrictions into the teams. eg. The Max limit of characters of 1 profession per party is 2 (includes primar and secondary) in HA. You would still get some Cookish builds but in generally it would be considerably reduced. Bloodspike, IWAY, Rit Spike etc. would all be gone, you could still have a spike Team build but it would be mored varied eg. 2 Rangers and 2 Rits and.... it would also make Anets task of balancing skills considerablly easier.

Surely by now Anet has noticed The Jade Quarry is dessert and has been pretty much since Factions came out. It needs a major overhoal. Although i cant thing of an way to improve it im sure there are plenty of good ideas taht would be able to sort it.

RA suffers from quitters but all in all the problem is mearly an annoyance and there is little that can be done against them to be fair.

Guild Battles Suffer since in general since The number of Active Guilds has considerably declined, especially ones that are big enough to hold guild battles on a regular basis. Theres no real encouragement to join a guild anymore, look through the ideas section on this forum and ull see lotsa good ideas to return the Guild to Guildwars. The Guild system hasnt changed a bit since it was 1st implemented 2 years ago.

FA suffers from Leechers and no variance. Leechers are very hard to stop but Anet really should do more to discourage them. Anet will give a temp ban for Spammers, why not give Leechers a temp Ban. Alternativly why not add coding in that says if u dont move for 2 (or who dont move after the battle starts) mins during a battle u stop recieving rewards (if peopel do have to go afk mid battles that ok, im sure they can live with not getting a reward for the period they are away.) Also a little varience in battles would make it a little more exciting, no real big changes just a few littlish things like changing the spawn of the npcs eg. instead of always getting warriors spawn with the turles u get 2 monks and a mesmer instead. OR having a special capture point that if the kuzicks hold for so long (5 mins) a Juggernaught spawns to assist in the defence or if the luxons hold it an extra group of Attack npcs spawn.

linh · May 31, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift Thief

PvP is now better than ever with ATS.

That was what people hope for when it is announced but the first mond ATS is a disappointment.
Delay a lot, come to late when many players don't have enough patience to wait. And it still has a lot of flaws + no admin support.

Yichi · May 31, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Guild Battles Suffer since in general since The number of Active Guilds has considerably declined, especially ones that are big enough to hold guild battles on a regular basis. Theres no real encouragement to join a guild anymore, look through the ideas section on this forum and ull see lotsa good ideas to return the Guild to Guildwars. The Guild system hasnt changed a bit since it was 1st implemented 2 years ago.

Yes this is obviously why GVG is suffering... /end sarcasm

GVG is suffering from a stale metagame due to imbalances/lack of active guilds. No it isn't the big guilds that hold guild battles. Most top GVG guilds only usually have around 12-15 members. Lack of skill balances, Lack of updates, Lack of decent rewards/ Lack of GW:Nightfall Championships is what has killed GVG.

wuzzman · May 31, 2007, 04:57 PM // 16:57

GvG is suffering because players want a stale meta which shouldn't have changed in their minds since May 2006. New players not getting into the uper levels of pvp mostly because of the death of HA. Also a lack of a major tournment in over a year...

Servant of Kali · May 31, 2007, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Theres nothing wrong with the classes in PvP and PvE

Yes there is. Some classes are inherently flawed in design. Try Paragon in 4v4 PvP. It's crippled.

Quote:

the problem is with the party forming. There nothign to stop cookie cutter teams when Anet could easily solve it by adding restrictions into the teams. eg. The Max limit of characters of 1 profession per party is 2

Was suggested before. A horrible idea. It makes no sense, it kills diversity (yes that's right), and kills the fun of people who like having themed party (hint: a lot of mesmers and rangers like their adventures).

Limitations are not solution to anything, the game gets worse because people feel less freedom in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

GvG is suffering because

Wuzzman, put aside your conspiracy theories.

Death of HA = good. I never liked HA much and was still able to get into good guild. How? TA. TA was 10x better than HA, for all times i can remember. For everyone who detests farming. Unlike HA, TA always used to offer much greater variety of builds.

And GvG .. same as other PvP modes. Rare skill balances kill the game more than anything else. Forcing the metagame by overpowering some skills kills it too. Buffing skills which dont need buffing = yawn. Leaving horrible skills alive in the meantime = sigh. I cannot possibly believe that it is so difficult to make a skill change. One doesnt have to be a genius to look at skill lists and buff for instance Attacker's Insight. At least a bit.

I dont even care about tournaments n stuff. But skill balance was crucial. And it failed. Now i dun care because im not playing. Am enjoying IRL.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jun 01, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Yes there is. Some classes are inherently flawed in design. Try Paragon in 4v4 PvP. It's crippled.

exactly my point, have have 4 of anyclass and u have problems, 4 Smite/Prot Monks, 4 Spike Eles, 4 Blood spike Necros etc. etc. but if u were limited so u couldnt have 4 then these woulnt be a problem.

or atleast less of one

LifesRestorer · Jun 01, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by drekmonger

In 1 to 2 weeks, according to the latest gaile chat. Will include major update to mesmer class and new soul reaping mechanics.

this is the problem a-net currently have. instead of having small consecutive updates, the updates come in large masses with big gaps inbetween.

all this does is create new problems without being able to see what the problem was before because too much stuff is changed, with another 3 month wait before anything else happens.

small updates with small breaks inbetween that highlight problems better and are easy to change once again are the way forward.

wuzzman · Jun 01, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Yes there is. Some classes are inherently flawed in design. Try Paragon in 4v4 PvP. It's crippled.

Was suggested before. A horrible idea. It makes no sense, it kills diversity (yes that's right), and kills the fun of people who like having themed party (hint: a lot of mesmers and rangers like their adventures).

Limitations are not solution to anything, the game gets worse because people feel less freedom in it.

Wuzzman, put aside your conspiracy theories.

Death of HA = good. I never liked HA much and was still able to get into good guild. How? TA. TA was 10x better than HA, for all times i can remember. For everyone who detests farming. Unlike HA, TA always used to offer much greater variety of builds.

And GvG .. same as other PvP modes. Rare skill balances kill the game more than anything else. Forcing the metagame by overpowering some skills kills it too. Buffing skills which dont need buffing = yawn. Leaving horrible skills alive in the meantime = sigh. I cannot possibly believe that it is so difficult to make a skill change. One doesnt have to be a genius to look at skill lists and buff for instance Attacker's Insight. At least a bit.

I dont even care about tournaments n stuff. But skill balance was crucial. And it failed. Now i dun care because im not playing. Am enjoying IRL.

no...no...Its like calling a tumor a mosquito bite. Now I can see how you can make a direct connection between the inflammation of your skin and the newly swatted mosquito that was just sucking your arm. But when that bump is the size of an orange I think you can safely call that a tumor...

See the problem is when top players leave we think that is the end of pvp. While skill balance is important, at best it only effects the uper tiers of pvp. Telling Anet to hurry it up or that top 20 guild will leave ain't helping pvp. Sad to say it but those players are replaceable. This game isn't nearly as static, players from the lower forms of pvp and people that do pve constantly test and try pvp bringing in new blood. When top guild's leave other guilds rise and take their place, their skill level may not be better then the older guild that dispanded, but face it, who hear now was better then the old Evil, WM, IQ? Those guilds leaving while tragic allowed other guilds to step out from under their shadow. There will always be players that will challenge the top, and the fact that they even made it to the top makes them better, then those who stay in the bottom(no matter how much they say those new top guilds are garbage). Top players leave, for reasons that don't even have anything to do with the game. Judging the health of a game by their coming and going's is not even smart.

Even in a pyrimad if you blow off the top it doesn't fall (you do get a ugly pyrimad). Guild Wars is however is more like an ant hill. Now matter how many times I destroy one, it gets rebuilt the next day, sometimes bigger then the one I plowed through before. The only way I can destroy the ant hill totally is to kill the ant colony inside. If you compare that to guild wars what kills the ant colony of guild wars? Lack of new blood. When new players can't move up into the higher levels of pvp, that is when guild wars pvp dies. That is why the death of Ha is bad. Players who HA have a much greater chance of becoming serious pvp'ers in GvG. Why is it a good thing that the only pvp mode besides GvG to require vent for at least half its builds is gone? Besides TA (which hardly anyone does seriously), which pvp mode has a moderate level of competition or requires a even moderate level of team work? Again losing this arena is a blow to pvp, simply because how many players from AB,RA,HVH move on to play in guilds that at least stay within the r1k range (I know thats not very good but its a lot better then r5k guilds running around.) ?

KebabVan · Jun 02, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

See the problem is when top players leave we think that is the end of pvp. While skill balance is important, at best it only effects the uper tiers of pvp. Telling Anet to hurry it up or that top 20 guild will leave ain't helping pvp. Sad to say it but those players are replaceable. This game isn't nearly as static, players from the lower forms of pvp and people that do pve constantly test and try pvp bringing in new blood. When top guild's leave other guilds rise and take their place, their skill level may not be better then the older guild that dispanded, but face it, who hear now was better then the old Evil, WM, IQ? Those guilds leaving while tragic allowed other guilds to step out from under their shadow. There will always be players that will challenge the top, and the fact that they even made it to the top makes them better, then those who stay in the bottom(no matter how much they say those new top guilds are garbage). Top players leave, for reasons that don't even have anything to do with the game. Judging the health of a game by their coming and going's is not even smart.

Since when did iQ quit the game. The fact you don't know they are one of the most active guilds in the game right now shows just how much you actually know about high lvl pvp.

HA rank is not a hard requirement for pretty much any of the top 100/200 guilds. They ask to know it or ask for a certain r+ to give an indication of exp, but GvG exp always comes first. If you were applying for a r50 guild with 5 fame but exp in a top 50 guild with references who know you are good, the new guild is not going to care you only have 5 fame. However if you apply for a top 50 guild as r10 but have played only 5 GvGs at r1000, you are going to have a pretty difficult time. That is because gaining fame only requires playing a lot, not skill or knowledge of the game. I have met countless r8+ who had not the first clue even about basic stuff such as weapon swapping or target swapping. They just 3,2,1 everything, whether thats counting down or skill mashing.

If you want to climb to the top tiers of GvG, the best way is to start playing in GvG guilds as soon as possible, not by playing HA. Gaining exp at a higher and higher lvl is not too hard as long as you have the skill needed to play at that level, it just takes time.

Iotan · Jun 04, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

See the problem is when top players leave we think that is the end of pvp. While skill balance is important, at best it only effects the uper tiers of pvp. Telling Anet to hurry it up or that top 20 guild will leave ain't helping pvp. Sad to say it but those players are replaceable. This game isn't nearly as static, players from the lower forms of pvp and people that do pve constantly test and try pvp bringing in new blood. When top guild's leave other guilds rise and take their place, their skill level may not be better then the older guild that dispanded, but face it, who hear now was better then the old Evil, WM, IQ?

Just wanted to quote something that many people say but really can't be backed up. The notion that new players are coming in and filling the shoes of the old good players is just plain incorrect. Look at what happened in Korea. They had the best guilds in the game but those guilds had to leave (for IRL reasons, etc.). Has the Korean GW scene recovered? A better question would be is there even an active Korean guild playing GvG...

The same thing that happened in Korea is happening in America now. If you look at historical ladders there has usually been ~50% of the top 40 from America. Right now there are about 7 when you don't include smurfs and inactive guilds. Also I can tell you from personal experience that the middle ranges of GvG (100 to say 500) are not growing in the Am timezone. We fight the same 3 or 4 guilds every week that are 200-400 and with our ranking we should almost never even fight them once. It seems that Euros don't have this problem yet, but GW is dead in Korea and dying in America.

Short version: new players aren't actually entering PvP so good guilds leaving is a big deal.

bungusmaximus · Jun 04, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

How about europe? being dutch I can see quite some friends of mine getting their feet wet in GvG. As of late euro districts in TA are also quite crowded. Don't know about HA, most players gather in int. districts anyway, so it's kinda hard to distinguish europeans from the rest. Bottom line, there still are quitte some people checking out PvP (including myself).

unmatchedfury · Jun 05, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

To be honest GW is "dying" because

1. GW is not a cult game like SC1,halo,or CounterStrike. no culture rose around it and since this hasn't happened you don't have a solid core of high level players. Some of the good old high level players remain but these continue to slowly move on, while not really being replaced.

2. Despite GW being fairly unique in trying to focus on PvP and PvE in a balanced way they eventually found out what other game devs already knew. In the World of MMORPGs the vast majority of players are in it because of the PvE play. Lately one can really see the drop on the amount of work done on PvP and the increase in concern over the PvE in GW.

3. GW may have started well because it promised highend PvP that was balnced and quick to get into, but instead of becomeing more rounded out and better balanced it became more gimicky and imbalanced.

4.This was fueled partly by adding classes that had no real place in PvP Such as the ritulist A jack of all trades caster which will eitehr replace a core clas or not be used at all. the Paragon which further overrode the rit and buffed passive defense in a game were passive defense is no fun to play. the dervrish which did what warriors do with more energy and spells. THe assasan was the only class that really had a specialty and did what it should have done which is specilize in conditon overload and essetially be a charactor with 3.5 attribute devoted to offense, a huge energy engine to support it(critical strikes) and some actual specialization.

Now back to my point about those new classes, they were added based primaraly on PvE, because of this they served no real place in PvP and came to ruin it in the long run. Because of this PvE focus that makes Anet money, And it does because GW is the only up to par AND free MMO out there i know of, PvP has begun to die, the focus has shifted to PvE, and our only hope lies in the GvG system 2-3 years away in GW2.

And there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many other ames coming out this christmas, FUry a MMO with NO PvE at all, Starcraft 2 which the whole asain world will play opon release, and a host of FPS games which usually all have their own cult followings.

BUt I've really quit GW because theres a sense off GvG being less active, and i never felt GW PvE up to par, It always feals too much like I'm following 7 Computer controlled players around and not really doing much myself. This comes mostly from having played diablo 2 and WoW ( even tho my highest char ever was 14 in WoW) but when i fight monsters i want to fkin SMASH face, no pussy healing behind 7other guys no charge up for fkin 5 second only to see a small yellow blip over 3 monsters and a 10% hp drop. When i press buttons in PvE somethin should HAPPEN i wan't lighing storms fireballs, EXPLOSIONS, I wanna take out 3 guys with one sword swing.thats what makes PvE fun nto slogging for an hour on some fedex quest not even fighting any epic fight but fighting by the GW motto " never fight alone"

this may be fun for some socialy addicted retards but i play video games to unwind from all the drama of college campus life. Anyway heres hoping GW2 will give me more chances to SMASH some face, because my only chance to do it in GW is in RA.

wuzzman · Jun 07, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iotan

Just wanted to quote something that many people say but really can't be backed up. The notion that new players are coming in and filling the shoes of the old good players is just plain incorrect. Look at what happened in Korea. They had the best guilds in the game but those guilds had to leave (for IRL reasons, etc.). Has the Korean GW scene recovered? A better question would be is there even an active Korean guild playing GvG...

The same thing that happened in Korea is happening in America now. If you look at historical ladders there has usually been ~50% of the top 40 from America. Right now there are about 7 when you don't include smurfs and inactive guilds. Also I can tell you from personal experience that the middle ranges of GvG (100 to say 500) are not growing in the Am timezone. We fight the same 3 or 4 guilds every week that are 200-400 and with our ranking we should almost never even fight them once. It seems that Euros don't have this problem yet, but GW is dead in Korea and dying in America.

Short version: new players aren't actually entering PvP so good guilds leaving is a big deal.

that doesn't even disprove my point. In fact it proves it, well the doom and gloom part. New players gave up on joining pvp a long time ago, the death of HA (my indicator) proves. Europe is getting better but for America and Asia..well its dieing almost gone. The only reason my the big old super elite guilds leaving would be considered a big deal if there is NO ONE TO TAKE THEIR PLACE. Which mean guild wars is already died, but their are people still willing to keep playing. Like the stock market before the Great Depression.

KebabVan · Jun 08, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

that doesn't even disprove my point. In fact it proves it, well the doom and gloom part. New players gave up on joining pvp a long time ago, the death of HA (my indicator) proves. Europe is getting better but for America and Asia..well its dieing almost gone. The only reason my the big old super elite guilds leaving would be considered a big deal if there is NO ONE TO TAKE THEIR PLACE. Which mean guild wars is already died, but their are people still willing to keep playing. Like the stock market before the Great Depression.

Well considering the only 2 super elite guilds that left without replacement are WM and EViL, you have a pretty bad point. If you take the 'super elite guilds' to be the ones that took part in the world championships then: iQ are one of the most active guilds today, LuM and Valandor merged into the elite iB which folded after GWFC- could say replaced by eF, EW still going, Te could say replaced by Rawr. The guilds that i said could be counted as replacing the old ones have some of the old members and from same region.

So to argue PvP is dying you cant look at the 'super elite guilds', you have to look at the guilds slightly below, recently such as ipod, tag, ffs etc which have folded / become less active but there are others continually taking their place. you have good guilds running balanced builds roughly on par with these and the 'elite guilds' such as Cry, vD, PnH etc.

So basically the only elite guilds which havent been replaced are WM and EViL and thats if your saying replaced by guilds from the same continent.

Eonwe · Jun 16, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

We're still here ^_^ .